Curse

Khift · Jun 02, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Spirit Bond
10 energy, 1/4 second cast, 2 second recharge
Enchantment Spell. For 8 seconds, whenever target ally takes more than 60 damage from a single attack or Spell, that ally is healed for 40-88 health.

The premise is this:

- Wear only three pieces of 15 AL armor bought from Shing Jea Monastery. (Smiting cap, Ascetics leg, Ascetics foot.) This will cause you to take 60+ damage from almost every hit.
- Use Spirit Bond to gain health.
- Use Protective Spirit to cap the damage you take below the amount of health gained from Spirit Bond.

Upon seeing this, logic kicks in and says: You're gonna need 600 or more health so that Protective Spirit doesn't keep Spirit Bond from triggering. This is where we kick logic out the window. This concept works regardless of your max health total. The reason is in the timing involved.

Spirit Bond triggers before the damage is actually dealt, in order to make it more viable in PvP. Think of this theoretical situation:

A character is being spiked by the opposing team. He has 100 health left. There is an incoming Obsidian Flame for 120 damage. The developers decided, since it is impossible for the Guild Wars combat engine to have two things happen in the same exact moment, that Spirit Bond should trigger just before the damage is dealt, therefore allowing this character to survive the spike. The character is healed by Spirit Bond, the damage hits, and he survives, even if it's only for another millisecond.

In our situation, the same thing happens, except it looks alot less desperate. Let us say we are running three superior runes on our three pieces of armor and have no health boosting equipment, putting us at 255 health. An attack from a Mountain Troll is incoming, and it is going to hit us for 100 damage. Spirit Bond sees this, heals us for the appropriate amount of damage, and then the 100 damage occurs, except that Protective Spirit then steps in and reduces that 100 damage to 25 damage. We receive 25 damage, and are healed for far more than that, and the end result is an everlasting feeling of having Healing Hands on you.

Now, what we have here is a solid and reliable way to make a character completely 100% invulnerable to almost all damage. We are not limited to having a set amount of health points. We are not constrained to any one secondary. To run this basic, fundamental part of the build all that is necessary is a measly 5 or so points in Protection Prayers, and the entire rest of the build is flexible.

That said, further innovation, although possible, is not entirely profitable. Looking at our options for killing the enemy, Shield of Judgement and Spiteful Spirit still stand head and shoulder above the rest of the field.

I have cooked up a pair of basic builds for farming Trolls and Minotaurs which accomplish the same thing a 55 monk can, just slightly faster and slightly more reliably -- and greatly easier on the pocketbook to set up.

Minotaur Farmer
Mo/W
12+1+3 Smiting Prayers
11+3 Divine Favor
6+3 Protection Prayers

1. Spirit Bond
2. Protective Spirit
3. Shield of Judgement {E}
4. Frenzy
5. Zealots Fire
6. Retribution
7. Balthazar's Spirit
8. Blessed Aura

Troll Farmer
Mo/Me
12+1+3 Smiting Prayers
11+3 Divine Favor
6+3 Protection Prayers
2 Inspiration Magic

1. Spirit Bond
2. Protective Spirit
3. Shield of Judgement {E}
4. Mantra of Concentration
5. Zealots Fire
6. Retribution
7. Balthazar's Spirit
8. Blessed Aura

Both of these builds are mildly unrefined. There is still a sub-par skill among both of them -- Frenzy in the first, because sometimes the Minotaurs do not hit for 60+ and on occasion your health will dip a little low because of successive under 60 hits, and Mantra of Concentration in the second, because those trolls and their damn Disrupting Chop gets on my nerves so bad. I mean, how do you interrupt Protective Spirit with Disrupting Chop?! How!?!

...

As annoying as the Disrupting Chop is, and as frightening as that little dip in your health bar may be, this following build may be a little better in the long run, as it looks like it'll farm faster:

Mo/E
12+1+3 Smiting Prayers
9+3 Divine Favor
6+3 Protection Prayers
7 Fire Magic

1. Spirit Bond
2. Protective Spirit
3. Shield of Judgement {E}
4. Flame Burst
5. Zealots Fire
6. Essence Bond
7. Balthazar's Spirit
8. Blessed Aura

I have not yet tested this build out. But, it looks like it'll work better. Essence Bond was swapped in over Retribution because Flame Burst is a serious energy eater and I'm sure the extra energy will be appreciated. The lost points in Divine Favor will cause Shield of Judgement to last 3/4s of a second less than it would with 14 Divine Favor -- not much of a loss.

Its also possible that you may wish to lay off of the superior runes, giving you a higher maximum health in order to make Retribution more effective. While I can't say for certain and I am not inclined to do the necessary number crunch, I doubt that'll be the case. But it could be -- it's worth investigating at some point.

This build can farm Trolls and Minotaurs slightly faster and slightly more reliable than a 55 monk can, and comes at a much reduced cost. This is not all this build is capable of, however. This build can, in theory, farm in places no man has ever farmed before. In theory, it can overcome degen, life steal, and is more resistant to interrupts. It has a much more flexible base to it than the rigid 55 monk does. I am certain that the power of the Spirit Bond farming build is yet to be really seen -- that somewhere, there is a group of enemies that a well tuned version of this can handle with ease that has never been farmed before. Let's get working!

Welcome back to farming with imagination.

Niet Nart · Jun 02, 2006, 03:46 AM // 03:46

I'm A bit confused at this, if your able to can you show me in game?

ign: Jaina Sharp Arrow

Khift · Jun 02, 2006, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niet Nart

I'm A bit confused at this, if your able to can you show me in game?

ign: Jaina Sharp Arrow

Sure thing. I'll be on in a moment. Meet at Elona's, INT1.

Khift · Jun 02, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22

I've just tested the Flame Burst build, and it works marvelously on both Trolls and Minotaurs.

Mo/E
12+1+3 Smiting Prayers
6+3 Divine Favor
2+3 Protection Prayers
11 Fire Magic

1. Spirit Bond
2. Protective Spirit
3. Shield of Judgement {E}
4. Flame Burst
5. Zealots Fire
6. Essence Bond
7. Balthazar's Spirit
8. Blessed Aura

Edit: Corrected my stats.

Loshi · Jun 02, 2006, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Call me crazy, but could you use the same concept with /Mo as your secondary, or is Divine Favour required?

*has grandiose visions of an invincible warrior*

Tur713 · Jun 02, 2006, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loshi

Call me crazy, but could you use the same concept with /Mo as your secondary, or is Divine Favour required?

*has grandiose visions of an invincible warrior*

I hope so! That'd be awesome!

stool_cannon · Jun 02, 2006, 08:22 AM // 08:22

I have to say that I was done believing in true innovation until just now. I haven't tried the build yet but this is very cool stuff. I am impressed.

Divvy · Jun 02, 2006, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

This build can, in theory, farm in places no man has ever farmed before. In theory, it can overcome degen, life steal, and is more resistant to interrupts. It has a much more flexible base to it than the rigid 55 monk does. I am certain that the power of the Spirit Bond farming build is yet to be really seen -- that somewhere, there is a group of enemies that a well tuned version of this can handle with ease that has never been farmed before.

I'm afraid you are not right... I've tried the build about two weeks ago and I must say it kinda sucks... I can 55 trolls alot faster (Zealots+SoJ)...
Sure - one of the interesting things about this build is that you are not afraid of spike damage anymore - n enemies (where 1<n<infinity) can bash you at the very same moment and you will still be alive

- but it is NOT ANY MORE viable than 55 hp (with the exception of degen / life steal). The most fearful issue for monk farmer STILL exists - *disenchantment*. Degen, interrupts - this all can be dealt with using 55 build. Disenchantment can't.

Pros:
- Low price,
- Spike damage isn't dangerous anymore,
- Very low risk that your spells are interrupted,
- Deals with degen/hexes quite well
- More options for taking a second class (sometimes MoResolve isn't needed)

Cons:
- Cant farm in low level areas,
- Low damage,
- Much energy needed (both PS and SBond cost 10)
- Health bar jumping up and down sometimes (I don't like it)

I must say however that I managed to clear first UW chamber with Spirit Bond+Retribution (took either {SB} or Power Spike+{SoJ} (yeah I know LOL^^) to deal with DNs). Is it worth it? No

Why? Too long.

Still, we have so many out-of-the box thinkers here (Sno/Remmeh^^) that I wouldn't be surprised if they came up with a build to solo Glint

Khift · Jun 02, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loshi

Call me crazy, but could you use the same concept with /Mo as your secondary, or is Divine Favour required?

*has grandiose visions of an invincible warrior*

In theory, no, you don't need to be Monk primary -- you just need about 5 or 6 points in Protection Prayers and those two skills. However, I don't see Warriors or Rangers doing too terribly well with this, because of their lower energy regen.

If you want to go for it, though, knock yourself out!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divvy

Cons:
- Cant farm in low level areas,
- Low damage,
- Much energy needed (both PS and SBond cost 10)
- Health bar jumping up and down sometimes (I don't like it)

Have you tried the more streamlined Flame Burst version? It actually farms faster than 55s, due to the addition of Flame Burst. Zealots + SoJ + Flame Burst > Zealots + SoJ, right? I've found I can kill the entire group of enemies in 30 seconds, sometimes less.

And, this is actually easier on your energy than the 55 setup. SBond takes only slightly more energy to keep up than HB. They cost the same, and HB lasts only 4 seconds longer. But the biggest difference is that you aren't required to run Mending any longer. You could cut it entirely and only bring two maintained enchantments, or you can put Essence Bond in it's spot and gain two energy per hit instead of one. Either way, your energy is much improved. 55's have Bonetti's, which is amazing, true, but you don't want Bonetti's up when SoJ is up and so for the most part of the fight it isn't active.

As for being inable to farm low-level areas -- Yeah, that's a truth. This build is incapable of farming in any area where you can't be guaranteed to receive 60+ damage a hit for at least 90% of the time. Even with Frenzy, the threshold is pretty low. However, if I wanted to farm low-level areas, I'd just grab my warrior. They do pretty well out there.

And for the health bar jumping... It's nowhere near as bad as a 55's health bar. It's very rare for me to see my health dip beneath 200, and even then thats only when I'm farming minos without Frenzy or Elemental Resistance. Farming trolls, or farming minos with one of those two skills, it stays at 230, hard as a rock.

Also, I realized this morning that the stats on my previously posted Flame Burst build were impossible. It isn't 3+3 Protection Prayers, it's 2+3. What I get for writing it down from memory, I guess.

Despondency · Jun 02, 2006, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Very nice contribution Khift.

Khift · Jun 02, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Thinking about /Mo secondaries led me to a pair of builds...

E/Mo
12+1+3 Fire Magic
11+3 Energy Storage
6 Protection Prayers

1. Spirit Bond
2. Protective Spirit
3. Star Burst {E}
4. Flame Burst
5. Fireball
6. Incendiary Bonds
7. Essence Bond
8. Balthazar's Spirit

N/Mo
12+1+3 Curses
10+3 Blood Magic
8 Protection Prayers

1. Spirit Bond
2. Protective Spirit
3. Awaken the Blood
4. Spiteful Spirit {E}
5. Reckless Haste
6. Suffering
7. Essence Bond
8. Balthazar's Spirit

Neither of these have been tested. Just off the top of my head. But, they are just as impregnable as the builds I've posted above. It's just a matter of speed.

Paul_Bunyan · Jun 02, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

I did some checking and searching, but was unable to find out what Heroic Bond does...Could someone elaborate?

I assume it's a new Factions skill...?

thumper · Jun 02, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Heroic Bond? Never heard of it...anyone shed some light on this?

Khift · Jun 02, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

D'oh! I meant essence bond. Forgive me for my mistake.

I'll edit my previous posts... Can't believe I got those names mixed up so easily.

Blacktemplar · Jun 02, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

I still beleive in the 55 prot HP build when farming trolls. With blessed aura at 20% and equipped wtih a sword/axe 19%/20% enchantment mod, it takes only one soj to destroy an entire army of trolls. Doesn't zealots fire cause them to run away when using aoe dmg? Espeically when it is essential to keep spirit bond up after recieiving over 60 dmg? Spamming spells is also essential to sustain health with high divine favor. Also, reversal of fortune is marvelous for using it as a blocking and healing skill agains't disrupting chops. When you die and have 15% dp, the spirit bond build will not gain such an advantage as when you have 15% dp and 13 hp on the 55 prot build. The spirit bond build is nonetheless a wonderful build with it's advantages and still "working in progress" with constant development updates.

Here is a shot with 55hp and no dp.

Here is a shot with 13 hp and 15% dp.

Finishing shot with healing breeze interrupted and still surviving.

Dead trolls with healing breeze recovered.

55 hp shot in Underworld doing 2 man ice king quest.

Khift · Jun 02, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Blacktemplar:

I'm not certain I understand the point of your post, or your logic.

Zealots Fire will make the enemies run if you cast too quickly. This is true. To avoid it, just time your spells -- only cast one AoE spell every two to three seconds. This will maximize your damage and your protection. Spirit Bond, Flame Burst, Prot Spirit, Flame Burst, Spirit Bond, Flame Burst, etc. etc. With timing, they will not run.

A single SoJ is all that is needed to destroy a group of enemies. But why settle for that, when you can do it faster? With just SoJ as your offense, it takes almost 40 seconds to take down a group of trolls. With Zealots and Flame Burst mixed in, it takes 25 seconds.

Also, Reversal of Fortune doesn't do anything against Disrupting Chop. It's a waste of a skill slot -- even if you do manage to reduce a Disrupting Chop's damage to 0 you will still be interrupted and get your skill knocked out.

And what's with the pictures? I'm sure by now we know what a 55 is capable of.

Blacktemplar · Jun 02, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

I have debated this topic in game with Khift during a Troll Run. At 7:45 pm or so.

Observations in game:

- Hp during Run:

55hp - Prot Build 225 hp - Spirit bond build

- Birds are a weakness to spirit bond build.

- Less offensive dmg using Prot build. Soj is 35 seconds exactly with 30% blessed aura and 20% enchantment. Usually 35 sec kill.

- More offensive dmg using spirit bond build. Aruond 20 -25 secs.

- Prot build is more versatile and can aggro anything without tweaking as long as they don't strip enchantment.

- Spirit bond build is very effective in certain farming areas when tweaked probably but is less versatile overall.

Niet Nart · Jun 03, 2006, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Well from experience from actually trying this build i have a few things to say. This post is about involving a new concept to farming with a monk and something others can experience from, not just some to argue against. There are a few tweaks that are involved but here are some things I noticed:
-55 hp works with this build also and works better somehow

-This build can tank more of a mob without dying and getting 13 hp.
-You can have 1 extra slot because you dont need to bring in heal breeze or mending

This new concept has really helped me and I now farm with it as it seems a more efficent faster way of farming... All I got to say

legless_the_elf · Jun 03, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

I still like my build better.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3030412
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3018598

But ya I really like the part about the examination about the healing happenig b4 the dmg. very cool!

Kit Engel · Jun 09, 2006, 10:14 AM // 10:14

I've actually been running this with my ritualist/monk since a few days after Factions came out.

Attributes? Max Restoration magic and Protection Prayers.

Skills? Vengeful Was Khanhei, Vengeful Weapon, Generous Was Tsungrai (kinda useless, never really use it...), Spirit Bond, Protective Spirit, Balthazar's Spirit, Essence Bond, Vital Blessing.

A lotta the skills are useless or redundant, but it worked nicely for minotaurs, trolls, griffons, aataxes, and such. It avoids the "low damage" problem to a minor extent since Khanhei doesn't care how much damage the enemy does, and it leeches life back to you. It's a bit slow, but the damage is easily sustained over long periods (Khanhei doesn't really take much), and I'm sure it's easily modified. It's useable with nothing more than the 15 AL harbinger's armor with no runes and the restoration headgear. I'm sure it'd be better with actual equipment, but... heh.